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With-Profits...again

These days, I find it increasingly difficult to drum up any enthusiasm for with-profits investments.  In the days when they had guaranteed sum assureds, and reasonably high levels of reversionary bonus, I suppose I had more time for them.  The things that masquerade as with-profits policies now appear to have more than a passing resemblance to a poor Managed Fund, and with rather less by way of guarantees!

 

Of course, I am being a little tongue-in-cheek here.  But it is something of a challenge to detect much by way of a convincing future for these funds - or at least a future which delivers definable benefits to the client.  LV have just announced a halving of their returns on their w-p fund in 2007.  Disappointing results have also been announced by Scottish Widows and Norwich Union, and the latest update from Scottish Mutual/Provident has delivered the depressing news that there is to be no Annual Bonus for 2007.  And, if you are an NPI w-p policyholder...

 

It seems as if w-p funds suffer from having to comply with pressures emanating from quite disparate sources.  The Regulator's focus is on solvency, which almost inevitably results in extremely high allocations to gilts and bonds - with the FTSE A Brit Gvt All Stocks losing -6.23% in 2007, it is perhaps not surprising that these funds have not failed to disappoint in recent times.  The net result can be clearly seen when you review the With-Profits Bonds Past Performance Table in Investment Life & Pensions MoneyFacts: the oft-use of that three-letter word 'Nil' against the various categories of bonus payable.

 

It is interesting, therefore, to learn that L&G believe that there is still a promising niche for w-p products (and I am willing to bet they are focusing on Investment Bonds).  Call me cynical, but one wonders if this has something to do with the insurer's cosy relationship with Barclays/Woolwich, and now with the Nationwide Building Society.  I can almost see the glossy marketing materials - a headline bonus rate which compares favourably with deposit rates, and a nice big, juicy initial commission payment in the region of 7-8%.  Or more.

 

Is this a prophetic moment?  We'll see.  In the meantime, it is precisely that kind of focus that highlights the discontinuity between product sales and customer interests, and rather fundamentally undermines the concept of 'Primary Advice', contained in the FSA's RDR.

 

There is a useful role for IFAs in this difficult area: we need to be more proactive with our clients, to help them understand the nature of these products - and, where appropriate, help devise strategies to minimise disappointment.  You might consider using our template material for a client factsheet/bulletin.  Download your copy by clicking here.


Kevin Moss, 21/02/2008

Feedback:
Steve Speczyk03/03/2008 16:35
My man from the Pru has advised me (and no doubt you) that their current bonus rate is 7.2%. At the same time another man from the Pru told one of my drawdown clients that should he wish to move his with profit monies a healthy MVA will apply.

We all know how such a course of action can be justified but it can be a touch tiresome to explain to a client how the "system" works.

Let's just forget with profits shall we?
Duncan Orr22/08/2008 14:52
Have a read of this article written by Peter McGahan!!

I wonder how many of the IFA community sit bewildered listening to comments such as "customers are increasingly asking more about" and "investors are now turning towards"?

After reading this I am sure most IFAs would question if they are indeed living in the real world and have missed the boat. Not so.

It was just as interested recently when I read about the demand for with profit annuities.

"Customers are increasingly demanding more adventurous schemes," I was advised. Really? Like how to get to the moon on a bike made of spaghetti?

Are we really likely to move from a sales industry to a profession when we simply supply such twaddle as an offering to reinvent ourselves time and time again, when actually the sole benefit is hoodwinking a customer into thinking we are adding value?

To what problem is a with profit annuity a solution to? Who created that problem and why?

Back in the days when no-one knew any better, a with profits 'investment' was considered to be a low risk investment! Bicycle, spaghetti, twaddle.

It was nothing more than a product designed for those advisers who could not explain risk. Who, outside of the self serving insurance industry, could possibly have created such a chocolate watch? It is without doubt the only wonder in the world as it is easy to see how and why the others were created.

Why design an investment that is opaque, is invested into broadly the same assets as a straight forward, yet badly underperforming managed fund with no expertise in either asset allocation, or individual stock picking within the assets? Furthermore, it is forced, in difficult times, to do exactly what it should not - sell equities when they are cheap. All this is coupled with the fact that the only time it was called upon to 'smooth', a vertical, but smooth, MVR was slapped on the unsuspecting victim, I mean customer, sorry, client.

And now it appears from Prudential's marketing that with profit annuities can do for us what your granny said sudocreme can.

It seems that they have a batch with a 'best before date' that is soon approaching as you cannot appear to have a conversation with them without someone offering a with profits annuity. Talk about trying to push a river up a hill. No doubt Prudential believes the product is under recommended, but that is the difference between a manufacturer and a company who knows what is needed. Tacoma Bridge comes to mind.

If you ask for an annuity quote, the front page has a reminder to ask you if you have thought about a with profits annuity. Yes I do. Every day just before considering breast implants.

With profits are considered as low risk, yet here we have a client in retirement who now all of a sudden wants to take a risk with equities with their retirement fund.

The designers of this should realise what maximum torsional motion is. To save you time, you will find you can only twist something so far.